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    Home»Bitcoin»Refuting the most recent anti-Bitcoin listing of factors from r/buttcoin (the anti-Bitcoin sub).
    Bitcoin

    Refuting the most recent anti-Bitcoin listing of factors from r/buttcoin (the anti-Bitcoin sub).

    adminBy admin2022-05-24Updated:2022-05-3125 Comments7 Mins Read
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    Just lately, r/buttcoin posted a listing of all the principle issues they’ve with Bitcoin and crypto.

    It type of appeared prefer it may very well be their manifesto:

    [https://np.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/uvz90h/to_the_rbitcoiners_that_keep_coming_to_this_sub/](https://np.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/feedback/uvz90h/to_the_rbitcoiners_that_keep_coming_to_this_sub/)

    (Please, keep in mind Reddit’s guidelines, and do not go brigade it).

    I am going to cowl every level right here, objectively and rationally.

    ​

    >1.No Intrinsic Worth: You may inform whether or not or not one thing has “intrinsic worth”, by seeing the place it matches in Maslow’s Hierarchy of Wants.

    Intrinsic worth is at all times a tough one, since there isn’t any clear minimize definition of “intrinsic worth”. I at all times thought in the case of tech, worth comes from the issues it may remedy. So software program can have intrinsic worth.

    However going by OP’s definition about intrinsic worth having to do with filling our fundamental wants, of buying meals shelter and so on…Is not that what cash does? It pays for these issues?

    And crypto is cash, and arguably, the best way cash ought to have been achieved from the start.

    Even in Mesopotamia, they realized cash, seashells, gold, wasn’t what cash was actually about. It is actually concerning the ledger.

    Retaining monitor of how cash interacts, and who has what. Multi function environment friendly place.

    They began utilizing tablets to maintain monitor of transactions, who owed what, how a lot, and so on… It was the ancestor to banking.

    ​

    [Ancestor to the blockchain: 5,000 years ago, the Mesopotamian ledger created an indisputable record of transactions, instead of using money.](https://preview.redd.it/atmcpvjvag191.jpg?width=522&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb3fc540b94e5d71e3f9f0ec4634088bcc38c88f)

    At the moment, our cash has actually develop into all digital, and concerning the ledger once more.

    It is a pc accounting system.

    Once we switch cash from our HSBC account to our bank card, then to the seller on Amazon who offered us our lube, it is all digital and on a ledger.

    HSBC does not ship a truck of money to Amazon.

    However that system continues to be inefficient, has too many events and totally different corporations concerned within the course of. With too many weak hyperlinks. Poor safety. Too many IOUs as an alternative of actual transactions. And having so many various parts you must belief. Together with the staff in every firm.

    My bank card quantity goes by way of so many arms.

    That is the place crypto is available in. It takes out all of the weak hyperlinks, that difficult inefficient system, and most of all, removes the problem of at all times having to belief so many individuals.

    The one factor between my cash, and the man who sells me lube, is a blockchain managed by a decentralized consensus, and cryptography.

    Appear to be the system we had been meant to have because the days of Mesopotamia, however did not have the know-how but.

    On the finish of the day, you may make the argument for each intrinsic and non-intrinsic.

    You may say there isn’t any intrinsic worth, should you preserve the definition extra slender, and never embrace tech or software program as options or having any worth. And with a extra slender definition, I can agree that on the very least, intrinsic worth shouldn’t be robust.

    ​

    >2.Ineffective “Tech”: Blockchain shouldn’t be modern tech, it was inefficient and outdated the day “Satoshi” created it and is much more so now, over a decade later.

    That is a bit overlooking the a whole lot of corporations around the globe already adopting blockchain know-how.

    Take a look at what IBM is doing as an illustration, and inform me should you suppose it is ineffective: [https://www.ibm.com/topics/hyperledger](https://www.ibm.com/matters/hyperledger)

    With sensible contracts, now you can code something you need and have it protected by not solely cryptography, however a decentralized consensus system.

    You should use blockchain to make sure something from data, to scientific analysis, to authorized contracts, aren’t corrupted, and take away centralized consensus.

    And it isn’t simply blockchain. It is cryptocurrencies. They don’t seem to be restricted to simply fixing cash issues, they can be used to assist create higher techniques for provide chains, like with VeChains for instance.

    This is a fast abstract of the way it works:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__yfks8BK2A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__yfks8BK2A)

    In the event you worth decentralized consensus, traceability, effectivity, velocity, decreased price, having the ability to selected both robust transparency or robust anonymity, and safety, then blockchain is one thing you may discover priceless.

    https://preview.redd.it/0oofbs51bg191.jpg?width=1022&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d5dc102a5323c770a78072e759d75fb71363587

    ​

    >3.Overly Sophisticated: Crypto is just too difficult, gradual and inefficient to ever be used for something. Your mother and grandparents WILL NEVER USE A STSTEM the place they should keep in mind an advanced seed phrase and password and

    You do not really need to memorize your seed phrase. However you’ve gotten the additional choice to, which may allow you to cross borders together with your cash in your mind.

    My dad is in his 70s, and never solely makes use of crypto, however trades it.

    Again earlier than 2019, after I nonetheless used my native crypto ATM, I requested the man within the store what sort of individuals used the ATM. And he mentioned that surprisingly, lots of people are grandmas shopping for Bitcoin as a present.

    After all, all that is anecdotal. However that is no totally different than individuals saying e mail was too difficult to make use of, again within the 90s.

    Now our grandparents are all utilizing it.

    In reality, organising a pockets in your telephone is as simple as organising every other app. Establishing a Coinbase account is similar as organising a brand new on-line checking account.

    Making a switch is as simple as copying and pasting an tackle or scanning a QR code.

    ​

    >4.Air pollution: Already talked about, losing actual sources that would energy a whole nation for a ineffective excel spreadsheet Ponzi scheme.

    This one I agree is a matter that must be severely addressed.

    However issues are getting into the precise path. More and more extra tasks are going for proof of stake, as an alternative of the heavy consuming proof of labor. And Bitcoin miners are going for extra power environment friendly {hardware}, and attempt to use extra renewable power. They need to, it is of their finest curiosity to chop the price.

    ​

    >5.It’s a Rip-off: You might be caught up in a worldwide delusional Ponzi, MLM rip-off that’s already collapsing and ruining hundreds of thousands of lives.

    ​

    That is partially true. A few of these crypto tasks are straight up disgusting scams.

    And on this sub, we at all times attempt to warn individuals about them.

    Wherever there’s cash concerned, persons are gonna attempt to rip-off you.

    Whether or not they attempt to phish in your seed phrase, or the whole undertaking is a rip-off, as we have seen with every part from Bitconnect to Safemoon.

    And among the tech will not be a rip-off, however complete jokes used to dupe individuals, like NFTs.

    However issues like Bitcoin, by definition, aren’t Ponzi scams. I clarify why the time period is inaccurate in additional particulars right here:[https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/u8rc0g/i_sometimes_see_people_call_bitcoin_a_ponzi/](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/feedback/u8rc0g/i_sometimes_see_people_call_bitcoin_a_ponzi/)

    What I feel individuals attempt to say after they name it Ponzi, is it is a better idiot scheme.

    In the event you do not imagine Bitcoin has intrinsic worth, then you may precisely say that it is a better idiot scheme. The place you’ve gotten an asset of no actual underlying worth, and also you’re looking for a better fool to purchase it from you, for greater than you paid for.

    After all, Ponzi sounds much more dramatic.

    In the event you managed to get this far, thanks for for really studying all this! I hope you realized one thing. Or it not less than opened your thoughts to do some extra analysis.



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    View 25 Comments

    25 Comments

    1. TOXICCARBY on 2022-05-24 16:43

      Lmao you’re preaching to the choir

      Reply
    2. nick83487 on 2022-05-24 16:44

      I like that you’re not just shutting down all their points as FUD, and instead taking the time to thoughtfully respond to each point and even recognize which points you could agree with. Well done.

      Reply
    3. babossa77 on 2022-05-24 16:47

      The *too complicated to use* argument is valid for now. If the usability stays like this, most people won’t be able to use it even in a few decades.

      It’s one of the major problems for adoption. The average person won’t be able to do a simple swap on uniswap, and its way to easy to connect your wallet to a milicious app without noticing and losing all your money.

      There is a lot of work to be done at that front.

      Reply
    4. already_night on 2022-05-24 17:04

      One of the best posts I’ve seen this month. OP, great job at coming with logic arguments. The anti-btc people were here at 2$, 20$, 200$, 2000$ and now 20.000$. They’ll be here at 200.000$. And so will we.

      Reply
    5. frstrtd_ndrd_dvlpr on 2022-05-24 17:09

      I don’t really understand the intrinsic value argument in like every thing, not only crypto.

      If we’re talking about intrinsic value then shouldn’t art be their main talking point? It’s purely emotional and sentimental, whence crypto is a tech which solves problems and is functional (of course not every token or blockchain actually does *something* but you get the idea). You can even count it as a software, it suits the very basic definition of one.

      Reply
    6. Hank___Scorpio on 2022-05-24 17:21

      The fact that that sub even exists means you don’t have to refute any of their points.

      Imagine going to an Incel subreddit and trying to tell them anything positive about women.

      Reply
    7. SHA256dynasty on 2022-05-24 17:23

      >2.Useless “Tech”: Blockchain is not innovative tech, it was inefficient and outdated the day “Satoshi” created it and is even more so now, over a decade later.
      >
      >4.Pollution: Already mentioned, wasting real resources that could power an entire country for a useless excel spreadsheet Ponzi scheme.
      >
      >This one I agree is an issue that needs to be seriously addressed.

      #2 & #4 are the same misunderstanding of proof-of-work. Proof-of-work is what keeps bitcoin decentralized, censorship-resistant, and it’s the only real-world solution to the byzantine general’s problem.. The high cost to solve a block is a feature of the tech, not a bug. Censorship-resistance is what gives bitcoin value in the first place.

      Reply
    8. suninabox on 2022-05-24 17:27

      >But going by OP’s definition about intrinsic value having to do with filling our basic needs, of acquiring food shelter etc…Isn’t that what money does? It pays for those things?

      That’s not intrinsic value. No one claims fiat money is intrinsically valuable.

      It’s instrumentally valuable – its valuable when its useful as currency, its not valuable when it isn’t.

      The paper a deutschmark is made of isn’t fundamentally any different than the paper a dollar is worth. Neither paper note has intrinsic worth outside of maybe a fraction of a cents worth as something you can burn for heat. Yet deutschmarks are near worthless now because they’re not accepted as currency, and only have very limited value as a collectors item.

      Now, what is the value of something that is neither intrinsically valuable (i.e. its not a physical resource you can build a house with or eat or drive to work in), and is also not instrumentally valuable, as its not used as currency and has fundamental design flaws that make it unsuitable to ever work as one.

      All you’re left with then is the circular logic of “its valuable because its a store of value”. Which forgets that a store of value needs to be valuable for some other reason, that’s what makes it a reliable store of value, otherwise its just an empty speculative asset.

      Reply
    9. BoAndJack on 2022-05-24 17:43

      I don’t agree with #3. Of course setting up your wallet is easy. Now say to grandpa that lost his phone that all his money is gone because he didn’t write down his seed. Or that the thief that went in his house stole his life savings because he found the seed and he cannot get them back in any way.

      I don’t see a solution for this without having a middle man that takes care of it for you. But then are you really using crypto?

      Complexity is a real problem, half of this sub never even did a real transaction on a blockchain probably and keeps their money on exchanges believing they’re “staking” them. You can’t have a system that is easy to use and also truly decentralized and safe. You definitely have to give up on something here…

      Reply
    10. nosoanon on 2022-05-24 18:09

      Good to see legitimate well thought out posts in here. So tired of seeing nothing but militant haters and moonboys with an IQ of 69 blabbing on and on incessantly about whatever they read this morning

      Reply
    11. MangoSpare6163 on 2022-05-24 18:24

      What’s the point of holding Bitcoin?

      Reply
    12. Rokey76 on 2022-05-24 18:28

      You lost me at “we should do money the same way the first civilizations did it”. If that was the best monetary system, it would have caught on by now. Our whole complex system developed overtime to fix the gaps in old ones.

      Reply
    13. Valnar on 2022-05-24 18:41

      IBM hyperledger seems like the opposite of the kind of blockchain stuff that gets championed here?

      >Hyperledger Fabric is an open, proven, enterprise-grade, distributed ledger platform. It has advanced privacy controls so only the data you want shared gets shared among the “permissioned” (known) network participants.

      This doesn’t really seem to be a good example of blockchain, at least in how it seems to be talked about here. This just sounds like a private DB.

      Reply
    14. LeslieMarston on 2022-05-24 19:18

      Looks like you didn’t refute buttcoins arguments very well. I myself have tried to figure out how to buy stuff with bitcoin and have not been successful, I also tried to figure out how to mine it and even mine a coin that you can mine with the storage on your computer, apparently that is a thing and you don’t need a super high end computer but I couldn’t figure it out, and I gave up mainly because I figured the coins I would mind wouldn’t ever be worth anything.

      Reply
    15. JerryLeeDog on 2022-05-24 19:19

      Buttcoin was probably useful in 2012 or so to play devils advocate

      Now it’s just a bunch of sour curmudgeons that are doubling, or maybe even tripling down on ignorance now that they could have all retired with a few bucks put in at that time

      The adoption, even in the last 12 months, is substantial… and that is one of their biggest arguments.

      So they are either 🙈🙉 or just plain willfully ignorant. It’s going to get so much worse for that pages integrity after the next halving. Like clockwork

      Reply
    16. H__Dresden on 2022-05-24 19:27

      Blockchain is nothing but an Append Only Data Structure. It is old technology some geeks retooled to make hash rates and give it value.

      Reply
    17. iamcdr on 2022-05-24 19:42

      >This is where crypto comes in. It takes out all the weak links, that complicated inefficient system, and most of all, removes the issue of always having to trust so many people.
      >The only thing between my money, and the guy who sells me lube, is a blockchain controlled by a decentralized consensus, and cryptography.

      Which is a double edged sword.

      If I order lube online, pay with my credit card/paypal/whatever and the guy sends me a jar of cum instead, I can just chargeback a transaction. What do I do if I paid in crypto?

      If my bank account gets emptied because of a flaw in bank’s security their insurance will cover it. What happens if a flaw in blockchain’s security gets exploited and I lose my money?

      It’s all great until you run into any issue.

      Reply
    18. elperorojo on 2022-05-24 20:13

      Could you give me your lube guy’s deets? I nearly had a lube guy but he slipped through my fingers

      Reply
    19. Bowels_Of_Love on 2022-05-24 20:20

      Your comment in the first section about your credit card going through multiple hands with the adjacent mention of poor security shows that you have a fundamental lack of understanding of how these things work. Your credit card details are not passed around in the manner described. In addition, there are multiple bodies and agencies that insure that adequate security surrounds these systems and they are subject to a level of scrutiny that far exceeds that of any crypto outfit.

      Reply
    20. pocman512 on 2022-05-24 20:34

      Imagine being wrong or not having a real argument for any of your points and still deciding to post the thread.

      Reply
    21. judasthetoxic on 2022-05-24 21:29

      Ok I stopped to read this when u say that banking systems are inefficient. Dude, crypto market uses half of ALL GLOBAL BANINKG SYSTEMS energy, and obviously the crypto market doesn’t represent neither 1% of the global market share.

      Wanna see how inefficient crypto is? Ethereum network is a global and decentralized Turing complete machine that has the computational power of a 90 DOLARS RASBERRY PI.

      It’s totally fine to argue about decentralization, about not trust governments and all that libertarian bullshit, but the traditional banking systems are Ferraris while crypto are skates.

      Reply
    22. Bar98704 on 2022-05-24 23:51

      I had a huge interest in Bitcoin until one day, I didn’t. And that right there is a problem. It only retains value if people continue to buy into it, it has no intrinsic value to fall back on at all. Warren Buffet said it perfectly “if I have all the Bitcoin in the world, what do I have?” And the answer is bollox all!
      And final settlement is great, until it’s not. If you have any issue with a vendor you’re shit out of luck

      Reply
    23. Everythings on 2022-05-25 00:23

      Increasingly more projects are going for proof of stake, instead of the heavy consuming proof of work

      It’s like no one here understands the risks of pos and just want to look green. This will be worse than the Luna disaster

      Reply
    24. sos755 on 2022-05-25 01:28

      If you are debating someone in r/buttcoin, then you have missed the point.

      r/buttcoin must not be taken seriously. The purpose of r/buttcoin is comedy that makes fun of the cryptocurrency cult.

      If you are offended by r/buttcoin because you cannot make fun of yourself and the crazy people around you, then the problem lies with you and not with r/buttcoin.

      Reply
    25. RyeonToast on 2022-05-25 02:30

      I hear a lot about the how cool the tech is, but all that comes up when I’ve looked around is more speculative investment. I looked through that Hyperledger page, but it looks too new to provide the sort of feedback I’d want before considering adopting a new database technology. What I’m waiting to see are the comparative reports. Did the switch to a blockchain based solution reduce maintenance needs? Did it support the needed transactions/second? Was it actually more secure? Did it result in any weird side effects? Does the team now require yet another specialist or consultant to keep operations going?

      > With smart contracts, you can now code anything you want and have it protected by not only cryptography, but a decentralized consensus system.

      That’s how code works. We can already code anything we want. What’ll determine whether this takes off or not how it compares in practice.

      > You can use blockchain to ensure anything from information, to scientific research, to legal contracts, are not corrupted, and remove centralized consensus.

      We can already check document and message integrity with a quick SHA hash. This isn’t a compelling argument on its own.

      > If you value decentralized consensus, traceability, efficiency, speed, reduced cost, being able to chose either strong transparency or strong anonymity, and security, then blockchain is something you’ll find valuable.

      Maybe. I’ve been promised a lot in my time, and as the years go by I get better at tuning out the marketing bullshit. What’ll matter is how projects like that Hyperledger you linked to turn out in practice. Until we get some results and cost/benefit analysis, this is just an amusement to idly contemplate, not something I’d guarantee to be the wave of the future. Maybe it’ll be broadly applicable, maybe it’ll be another Tesla disk turbine or pa peristaltic pump that has some niche uses, maybe it’ll be cold fusion. What I do know is people keep trying to tell me it’s sure to be the wave of a new future, and all it really is amounts to right now is a different technique for storing and disseminating data that may or may not prove useful outside the current market of speculative investment.

      Reply

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